Guest Mr. Bigglesworth Posted June 16, 2015 Report Share Posted June 16, 2015 Who was the one saying that it wouldn't work to rely on having shrouded for all the models in the 'nid army? Maybe not you, but I'm pretty sure it was this thread. And again, the idea is that you'd fear what was in the land raiders, not the land raiders. Killing 140pts per turn with 1750pts isn't really something you should be afraid of. But with gc I wouldn't fear it as I would be as fast and once you are out I would be faster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 16, 2015 Report Share Posted June 16, 2015 But with gc I wouldn't fear it as I would be as fast and once you are out I would be faster. I don't really follow. Hit and run tactics, perhaps? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted June 16, 2015 Report Share Posted June 16, 2015 I don't really follow. Hit and run tactics, perhaps?12" move Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 16, 2015 Report Share Posted June 16, 2015 12" move So you do your 12" move, assault my LR, destroy it, and then move 12" away before the embarked unit has a turn? That's a pretty good tactic, too bad the rules don't support it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 16, 2015 Report Share Posted June 16, 2015 On a side note, I've 12" of move too, as the LR moves 6" and then disembarks 6" with the assault vehicle rule. The destroyed LR doesn't move too well, of course . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestRider Posted June 16, 2015 Report Share Posted June 16, 2015 No, he uses the 12" Move to stay clear of the Land Raiders' threat range until either your dudes disembark or he's ready to slam it with multiple GMCs at once, hopefully surrounding and wiping the Passengers as well as the Raider, but leaving them in a bad position regardless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 16, 2015 Report Share Posted June 16, 2015 No, he uses the 12" Move to stay clear of the Land Raiders' threat range until either your dudes disembark or he's ready to slam it with multiple GMCs at once, hopefully surrounding and wiping the Passengers as well as the Raider, but leaving them in a bad position regardless. And that's 40k with tactics, but it doesn't sound like OP tyranids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted June 16, 2015 Report Share Posted June 16, 2015 Land Raider spam is currently tearing up the tournament scene. GMC Tyranids would have no chance! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 16, 2015 Report Share Posted June 16, 2015 Land Raider spam is currently tearing up the tournament scene. GMC Tyranids would have no chance! Lol, yeah, those fearsome LRs.... So, let me re-word the question: How would this list do in a normal tournament (with the mentioned GC upgrades)? And more so, how much better would it do than the non-GC upgraded version? LEVIATHAN DETACHMENT 1 Hive Tyrant (Wings, 2x Devs, Electroshock) 1 Hive Tyrant (Wings, 2x Devs, Electroshock) 1 Tervigon 1 Malanthrope 1 Mucolid 1 Mucolid 1 Mucolid 1 Mawloc 1 Mawloc 1 Mawloc COMBINED ARMS 1 Tervigon 1 Mucolid 1 Mucolid 1 Mawloc 1 Mawloc 1 Mawloc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mr. Bigglesworth Posted June 16, 2015 Report Share Posted June 16, 2015 No, he uses the 12" Move to stay clear of the Land Raiders' threat range until either your dudes disembark or he's ready to slam it with multiple GMCs at once, hopefully surrounding and wiping the Passengers as well as the Raider, but leaving them in a bad position regardless. This and yes it is tactics. But it is tactics I wouldn't have available unless I was gc. A mc can't outrun the passengers of a land raider but a gc can. What makes gc such a huge upgrade is movement. Movement is one of the most important roles a unit can play. If I just selected half my army to get 6" extra movement in the movement phase without penalty to any of the other phases I would feel like I would auto win. I used 120 points again as an arbitrary number not a number I stand by. Maybe a 60 point I don't know but my point is none of mcs in the nids dex is undercosted by 120 points and could use a bump of gc without at least some point increase. Will nids get gc most likely? do nids need a new dex? Absolutely. I think you help illustrate that point but a lot of your suggestions stem from a lack of playing the dex. I haven't played it for some time but I did put them on the table for at least the last three editions and j have to say, fly rants are the only op entry. Free unit of terms with a Tervigon is an interest idea and I think with sm getting free transport it is not a large leap to think this might happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 16, 2015 Report Share Posted June 16, 2015 This and yes it is tactics. But it is tactics I wouldn't have available unless I was gc. A mc can't outrun the passengers of a land raider but a gc can. What makes gc such a huge upgrade is movement. Movement is one of the most important roles a unit can play. If I just selected half my army to get 6" extra movement in the movement phase without penalty to any of the other phases I would feel like I would auto win.. Thing is that every other army, just about, has these things called transports, which allow our slow units to move at this speed. It isn't really broken to give it to the bugs since they don't have transports. Still surprised bugs have no transports, though I suppose the tervigon is sort of a transport. And I do note that 120pts wasn't intended. I just did it because I don't really think any increase would really be fair. Between the lack of transports, lack of turn 1 DS, lack of affordable LoWs, the lack of BS for automated fire of fortifications, and a bunch of other lacks, the bugs really aren't on par with most armies without being restricted to cookie cutter armies. I don't really think the GC upgrade solves this. It might allow one more build for cookie cutter nid armies, but that's it. It's not a solution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mr. Bigglesworth Posted June 16, 2015 Report Share Posted June 16, 2015 Transports don't allow assault, unless they are an assault vehicle. And vehicles are not exactly reliable, once lost they don't help make you more mobile. Gc does all that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 16, 2015 Report Share Posted June 16, 2015 Transports don't allow assault, unless they are an assault vehicle. And vehicles are not exactly reliable, once lost they don't help make you more mobile. Gc does all that. Reliable, such a strange concept here. I suppose the tyranid perspective sees vehicles as unreliable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestRider Posted June 16, 2015 Report Share Posted June 16, 2015 Actually, in my case, it was playing extensively with Transport Vehicles that got me seeing them as unreliable. Way too many immobilizations leaving me stuck at foot speed too far away to contribute in time. There's a reason that the only Transports I regularly use in serious games are Drop Pods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mr. Bigglesworth Posted June 16, 2015 Report Share Posted June 16, 2015 I'm all for mass razors with scout as they tend to get close enough. But av 11 and 12, the average transport are very easy to stop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestRider Posted June 16, 2015 Report Share Posted June 16, 2015 Scout does change the equation, yeah. Being able to get a near guarantee of getting almost to midfield helps a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huggies01 Posted June 16, 2015 Report Share Posted June 16, 2015 Lets not forget that opened top vehicles are assault as well. Unless some rules have changed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 16, 2015 Report Share Posted June 16, 2015 I'm all for mass razors with scout as they tend to get close enough. But av 11 and 12, the average transport are very easy to stop. If they move at combat speed, yeah, they are easy to stop from getting across the board. A rhino can move 18" in one turn. If it's destroyed after that, the marines disembark 3" and call it good. 18" is a lot, and it's 21" if wrecked. In a normal game, a rhino can easily make midfield. Land raiders and razors too, though most players move these at combat speed (6") which gives them the illusion of being slow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestRider Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 Unless the other guy has the first Turn and immobilizes/wrecks them in your DZ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 Unless the other guy has the first Turn and immobilizes/wrecks them in your DZ. But that's not really any different from the opponent that pins/kills/tarpits/grounds your MC/GC/FMC. And in any army where I expect transports to go somewhere it would include enough where losing a few on turn 1 is downright expected. Same is true for a tyranid army, I'd expect. Most of the time, though, I treat my rhinos as portable walls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestRider Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 MCs are immune to Pinning, and there's nothing in the Game that can Tarpit them Turn 1 if my Opponent is going first. Similarly, FMCs will either be Gliding (and you can be damn sure either out of LoS or at least in 2+ Cover) or in Reserves during my Opponent's first Turn if he's going first. It's the top of that first Turn that really matters, which is why Scout is such a big deal for Transports. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 MCs are immune to Pinning, and there's nothing in the Game that can Tarpit them Turn 1 if my Opponent is going first. Similarly, FMCs will either be Gliding (and you can be damn sure either out of LoS or at least in 2+ Cover) or in Reserves during my Opponent's first Turn if he's going first. It's the top of that first Turn that really matters, which is why Scout is such a big deal for Transports. Ah...perhaps you should see that thread regarding the new SM book's formation for a turn 1 tarpit assault squad rules mess. 'Cause SM really needed a boost to help cope with tyranids... We could also assault you with cavalry/bikes/jump infantry if you scout or infiltrate closer... As for pinning, are they really immune? Seem to recall something about the riptide being able to go to ground. Anyway, I was directing it at bugs in general. You do have synapse, but as mentioned, synapse tends to get targeted for that very reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
galahad911 Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 Ah...perhaps you should see that thread regarding the new SM book's formation for a turn 1 tarpit assault squad rules mess. 'Cause SM really needed a boost to help cope with tyranids... We could also assault you with cavalry/bikes/jump infantry if you scout or infiltrate closer... As for pinning, are they really immune? Seem to recall something about the riptide being able to go to ground. Anyway, I was directing it at bugs in general. You do have synapse, but as mentioned, synapse tends to get targeted for that very reason. All Tyranid MCs except the Dimachaeron are naturally Fearless or a Synapse Creature. So, yeah, immune to pinning. If facing that formation, and not going first, a Tyranid player would need to deploy accordingly to deal with that. Not to say every list is going to have the tools to keep the assault squads from hitting any MCs, but most of mine do. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestRider Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 It's been ages since I've run a Nid list without at least one decent-sized Gargoyle Brood that can provide Charge Screening. Because they're so slow, it's a vital tool to have around for a ground-based list. And with a Skyhammer coming in, all my FMCs are definitely starting in Reserves unless I go first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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