Guest Posted May 15, 2015 Report Share Posted May 15, 2015 If you think a S9 AP3 Large blast is equivalent in scariness to un-nerfed D strength small blast, then I don't know what to tell you. No, I think your D weapon artillery unit with attached farseer are about as durable as the Basilisks. READ THE POST. Half the time it seems like people are objecting to things I didn't even write. As for your list and your comment about it being this ultimate zone control unit, I'm not seeing it. At 285pts, it doesn't strike me as much more durable than a squadron of basilisks. Yeah, threatening, but it can't hold it's own if threatened back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 15, 2015 Report Share Posted May 15, 2015 And before you ask, part of what makes them close to the same durability is that they can be in range from further away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted May 15, 2015 Report Share Posted May 15, 2015 They're also more durable because most people don't care about basilisks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted May 15, 2015 Report Share Posted May 15, 2015 No, I think your D weapon artillery unit with attached farseer are about as durable as the Basilisks. The reason I commented on damage and not durability, is because durability shouldn't be much of a factor when considering area denial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 15, 2015 Report Share Posted May 15, 2015 The reason I commented on damage and not durability, is because durability shouldn't be much of a factor when considering area denial. I see. I think durability is a huge factor when making comments like this: there is almost nothing that wants to get in range of these things If durability is weak, and range is limited, then why am I so afraid of it? I can sacrifice an assault marine combat squad so the other half can engage this in assault. You can only fire at 1 target per turn, and you've only got the small blasts, so why is it so amazing for Zone control? Yeah, you've got an entire army to defend it, but I've got an entire army to deal with those elements. At 285pts, a reasonable counter would be 200pts of assault marines (10, 2 squads of 5) and 70pts of sniper scouts (5 with cloaks). And that's without getting into chapter specific unit counters (DA, SW, BA, BT), or FW units. Mind you, until I dispose of them, I'll probably not put any land raiders in that zone, but that too would depend on the other elements of your army and how much I determined the need to remove your artillery unit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted May 15, 2015 Report Share Posted May 15, 2015 I'll refer you back to the list as a whole. It's a synergistic weapon. 5 random assault marines can be disposed of at range by a variety of things in the list. The POINT is that you can't bring in any heavy hitters into the 24" range, as you already mentioned with the Land Raider. Basically, you are forced to only send in bitty units to make me "waste" my powerful shot, but those little units are just easily taken care of by the other elements of my force. Again, this isn't some kind of theory hammer, I *did* this in 6th ed with no issues and that was WITHOUT the D. If you can't figure out how it works, I don't know what to say. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbusePuppy Posted May 16, 2015 Report Share Posted May 16, 2015 Isn't there a scouting/infiltrating flesh hound list somewhere? Yeah, there was one at the Harvester. It was something like: Daemonkin CAD with two Lords on Juggernauts with melee weapons and Meltabombs, 2x10 Cultists, 2x Heldrakes Flesh Hounds/Bikes formation with 3x max Flesh Hounds, two Bike squads with Meltaguns I don't like the tactical terminator UNIT, but I do think they are worth their points on an individual MODEL basis. I think 40pts for single wound model with 2+/5++, deep strike, a power fist and storm bolter is a fair price. Most of us don't think they're good on a model-basis, either. They're triple the cost of a Tactical Marine but less than twice as survivable and shooty. They have superior melee against most types of targets, but usually that doesn't matter because of the nature of 7E. Deep Strike is cute, but a Drop Pod (though costing a few extra points) is significantly more reliable, accurate, and brings an extra ObSec unit to the table. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 16, 2015 Report Share Posted May 16, 2015 Most of us don't think they're good on a model-basis, either. They're triple the cost of a Tactical Marine but less than twice as survivable and shooty. They have superior melee against most types of targets, but usually that doesn't matter because of the nature of 7E. Deep Strike is cute, but a Drop Pod (though costing a few extra points) is significantly more reliable, accurate, and brings an extra ObSec unit to the table. Remember the objective secured bit is gained via detachment rules and isn't part of the tactical squad entry. Both units are scoring. As for terminators Vs tactical marines, I think it really depends on the opponent. Terminators are going to be considerably better against AP3 enemy weapons, against enemies which require the S8 ap2 melee weapons to defeat, and against enemies where you want to be able to rapid fire and then assault. A wraith knight is much more likely to die in assault against 10 tactical terminators than it would against 30 tactical marines. They'll both take considerable losses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InfestedKerrigan Posted May 22, 2015 Report Share Posted May 22, 2015 Can the Stormtrooper Dex take FW Fliers? Rather, do they count as AstraMil for the purposes of accessing Imperial Naval Craft? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 23, 2015 Report Share Posted May 23, 2015 Can the Stormtrooper Dex take FW Fliers? Rather, do they count as AstraMil for the purposes of accessing Imperial Naval Craft? No, they are their own thing. Really hoping GW FAQs that one, but presently they are rather limited. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InfestedKerrigan Posted July 15, 2015 Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 As far as I can tell, this is a legal ITC list, correct? Imperial Knights Kings Court, the one with all ICs, don't recall what it's called, still drinking first cup of coffee. Warhound - Warlord, IWND Gallant Castigator Paladin Warhound can be taken as a LOW for Imperial Armies, and as such can be taken as part of the Detachment, and thereby be my warlord, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 15, 2015 Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 As far as I can tell, this is a legal ITC list, correct? Imperial Knights Kings Court, the one with all ICs, don't recall what it's called, still drinking first cup of coffee. Warhound - Warlord, IWND Gallant Castigator Paladin Warhound can be taken as a LOW for Imperial Armies, and as such can be taken as part of the Detachment, and thereby be my warlord, right? Warhound isn't a legal choice for LoWs in the ITC format (unless they changed it recently). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InfestedKerrigan Posted July 15, 2015 Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 So it being listed as a LOW option in the Imperial Armor Index doesn't make it a valid LOW option? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 15, 2015 Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 Allowed LoW: Adepta SororitasCerastus Knights: Acheron, Castigator, Lancer Marauder Bomber: NOTE: No Hellstorm Bombs may be taken. Marauder Destroyer Astra MilitarumBaneblade Banehammer Banesword Captain Maximillian Weiseman Cerastus Knights: Acheron, Castigator, Lancer Crassus Armored Assault Carrier Dominus Armored Siege Bombard Doomhammer Gorgon Heavy Transporter Fortress of Arrogance Macharius: Heavy Tank, Vanquisher, Vulcan, Omega Malcador: Heavy Tank, Annihilator, Deffender Marauder Bomber: NOTE: No Hellstorm Bombs may be taken. Marauder Destroyer Minotaur Artillery Tank Shadowsword Stormblade Stormlord Valdor Tank Hunter ChaosChaos Fellblade Greater Brass Scorpion of Khorne Khorne Lord of Skulls EldarWraithknight Lynx NOTE: May not take Sonic Lance Grey KnightsCerastus Knights: Acheron, Castigator, Lancer Marauder Bomber: NOTE: No Hellstorm Bombs may be taken. Marauder Destroyer NecronsGauss Pylon Obelisk Tessaract Vault OrksGargantuan Squiggoth Kustom Battle Fortress Kill Krusha Tank Kill Blasta Lifta Wagon Skullhammer Tank Stompa Big Mek Stompa NOTE: Big Mek Buzzgob pays full points for his Stompa upgrade, not those listed in his profile. Space Marines Note: No Space marine Lord of War may take the Battle of Kyelek Legacy of Glory Cerastus Knights: Acheron, Castigator, Lancer Cerberus Heavy Tank Destroyer Fellblade Marauder Bomber: NOTE: No Hellstorm Bombs may be taken. Marauder Destroyer TauOrca Dropship Tiger Shark Fighter Bomber TyranidsHeirodule: Barbed and Scythed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InfestedKerrigan Posted July 15, 2015 Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 Found the allowed list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InfestedKerrigan Posted July 15, 2015 Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 Ninja'd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InfestedKerrigan Posted July 15, 2015 Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 Damn. I thought that would solve the points problem perfectly and keep me at 4 Giant Fighting Robots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 15, 2015 Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 So it being listed as a LOW option in the Imperial Armor Index doesn't make it a valid LOW option? The above covers the ITC Format restrictions on LoWs. Pretty sure those found in the Knight book are also allowed. As for using the Warhound in a formation, I think it would still count as it's own faction and therefore not be allowed in most detachments/formations. The IA index is just a list of current rules for FW options. It doesn't affect what is legal or not. Remember that Adepticon, for example, doesn't use the ITC format, just the ITC FAQ. The GG cup, on the other hand, uses both the ITC format and the ITC FAQ. So more lords of war are legal in the Adepticon events, than in the GG cup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted July 15, 2015 Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 As far as I can tell, this is a legal ITC list, correct? Imperial Knights Kings Court, the one with all ICs, don't recall what it's called, still drinking first cup of coffee. Warhound - Warlord, IWND Gallant Castigator Paladin Warhound can be taken as a LOW for Imperial Armies, and as such can be taken as part of the Detachment, and thereby be my warlord, right? Regardless of Detachments, no more than 1 Fortification and/or 1 Super Heavy/Gargantuan Lord of War may be taken from the allowed LoW list, below.Note: The exception to this rule is Imperial Knights. One detachment in your army may include an Imperial Knight. So long as the detachment restrictions allow for multiple LoW, you may exceed the 0-1 LoW restriction within this detachment so long as all other LoW are also Imperial Knights. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InfestedKerrigan Posted July 15, 2015 Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 you may exceed the 0-1 LoW restriction within this detachment so long as all other LoW are also Imperial Knights. That's the ticket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted July 15, 2015 Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 Yeah, so one detachment can have multiple Knights. So that's what 5 tops? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InfestedKerrigan Posted July 15, 2015 Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 Yeah. And 2000+ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted July 15, 2015 Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 Yeah. And 2000+ Yeah, so probably 3 at 1850 is the max you can fit in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 15, 2015 Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 Yeah, so probably 3 at 1850 is the max you can fit in. Until the knights get a "Demi-company" formation which gives them 350pts of free knights.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbusePuppy Posted July 15, 2015 Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 Can the Stormtrooper Dex take FW Fliers? Rather, do they count as AstraMil for the purposes of accessing Imperial Naval Craft? Forge World has said in emails- and the ITC council has ruled the same- that they are allowed to do so. Scions are functionally counted as IG for purposes of taking most Forge World units. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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