Guest Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 Doesn't surprise me, based on what I've been going through just with the Troops and Elites. These are impressive Models once you get them done, but it feels like they need way more cleanup and gap filling and other work than should be necessary. Same. My vanguard include thin plastic which is clearly not going to last. First low quality GW kit I've bought in a while. A bad sign. I'm rough on my models, so I'm debating breaking off the radium carbine barrels and just drilling holes. I've already broken a few on accident and the bit is too small for pinning (without unreasonably small drills). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathanvoodoo Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 I built a dragoon and hated more than I think I've ever hated building a model. I also really hate building models. However it looks really nice now that it is painted. Also, I've now played two games with my Rangers, and I have got to say- THEY DROP LIKE FLIES! They die so easily... I can't ever imagine running the elite choices. t3 and 4+ armor is just terrible . 10 rangers dead to one round of shooting by a wave serpent. Any competitive list I run with them I think I'll be running fortifications. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestRider Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 T3 and 4+ is fine when you're talking things that average out at 10-12 Points per Model, after upgrades. It starts getting sketchy for Units like Scions and Skitarii Troops, averaging somewhere around 18-25 PPM. At Sicarian 30+PPM prices, it's just ludicrously fragile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 Found a lame comparision photo: Can't be much larger than a sentinel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 T3 and 4+ is fine when you're talking things that average out at 10-12 Points per Model, after upgrades. It starts getting sketchy for Units like Scions and Skitarii Troops, averaging somewhere around 18-25 PPM. At Sicarian 30+PPM prices, it's just ludicrously fragile. That's why I've been suggesting the 2-legged walkers in units of 1, as it really increases your numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AgentP Posted April 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 You are actually suggesting running - solo - 11 armor 2 hull point models? For ITS where every secondary mission has "Destroy a unit" as a point option, and where three primary missions are guaranteed to be purge, scouring and big guns? That's quite the tactic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 You are actually suggesting running - solo - 11 armor 2 hull point models? For ITS where every secondary mission has "Destroy a unit" as a point option, and where three primary missions are guaranteed to be purge, scouring and big guns? That's quite the tactic. Have you ever run a Land Speeder? AV10 and 2 hull points. Before you mention jink, recall that the FA version has a 5+ cover that doesn't force the unit to snap and functions against weapons not directly aimed at them (unlike jink). My plan is a pair of Dragoons, two units of 1. 45pts each is cheaper than the base land speeder. I will note that the AV11 walkers are still likely more durable than those vanguard or rangers. Skitarii isn't exactly an army to boast durability. As West mentioned, the skitarii troops are very spendy. MSU is only viable if the units are cheap enough. As for first blood and objectives. Yeah, they are vulnerable, but they are also very fast. A good unit to claim objectives early on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 A better question is whether anyone has run a land speeder in 7th edition. I haven't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 A better question is whether anyone has run a land speeder in 7th edition. I haven't. Do wolves have land speeders? I know sisters don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 Do wolves have land speeders? I know sisters don't. Yep, and I have three or four. I ran them in fifth. Haven't run them since then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 Yep, and I have three or four. I ran them in fifth. Haven't run them since then. Huh...I also haven't seen wolf speeders since 5th. Assumed they lost them in the new book. Anyway, yes, I have run, and have seen others run, land speeders in 7th. Very much depends on your army, if the speeders are viable. They do have value in maelstrom missions, if only as a 50pt objective grabber which jinks almost every turn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 Huh...I also haven't seen wolf speeders since 5th. Assumed they lost them in the new book. Anyway, yes, I have run, and have seen others run, land speeders in 7th. Very much depends on your army, if the speeders are viable. They do have value in maelstrom missions, if only as a 50pt objective grabber which jinks almost every turn. There's a reason. Mostly that they aren't as cool / effective as they used to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 There's a reason. Mostly that they aren't as cool / effective as they used to be. Yeah, mostly agree. Jink requiring the speeders snap was a huge blow in effectiveness. Anyway, FA skitarii walkers are AV11 on all sides, 2 HP, 5+ cover without jinking, and only 45pts each. They can move 14-24" per turn with move+run. That's a pretty solid objective grabber. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AgentP Posted April 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 Anyway, yes, I have run, and have seen others run, land speeders in 7th. Very much depends on your army, if the speeders are viable. You find me a top table ITC list running land speeders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 Do you care about winning or do you care about forging narratives! NARRATIVES I TELL YOU! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 You find me a top table ITC list running land speeders. ...Why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 ...Why?He's making the point that land speeders are bad and good lists don't use them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 He's making the point that land speeders are bad and good lists don't use them. Rather judgemental, isn't he? Anyway, I've only been fielding mine because I got this OOP metal one from chappy and I really like how it looks. As for list applications, there are two main lists that they would be fielded, if at all, in a competitive event. Vulkan Lists, and DA lists. Vulkan TLs all list melta weapons, so some application there, especially if deep striking the speed. In the DA list, the DA biker squad equivalent can field an objective secured (troops) land speeder, which has rather obvious applications on such a speedy frame. That said, with DA not even being tried by most Marine players, the odds that they'd be seen in an event are low. Still, my point was that the 2-legged walkers functioned in a similar role as the land speeders, not that land speeders were overly impressive. I think the 2-legged walkers have lots of applications in competitive lists, even running solo. I find them a steal for their points, while land speeders are rather overpriced in 7th. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AgentP Posted April 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 23, 2015 Rather judgemental, isn't he? I'd be careful calling me judgmental. When it comes to what you post, I'm highly restrained. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chappy Posted April 23, 2015 Report Share Posted April 23, 2015 I'd be careful calling me judgmental. When it comes to what you post, I'm highly restrained.+1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 23, 2015 Report Share Posted April 23, 2015 I'd be careful calling me judgmental. When it comes to what you post, I'm highly restrained. That was very much sarcasm. I agree, you were restrained. Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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